Sunday, April 08, 2007

Spiritual Discourse.

The other night in Houston, a kid came up to me and asked about whether or not we were a "christian band" (whatever that means), or "christians in a band"...and what does that mean? Each definition implies missionary like tendencies. We've repeated this a billion times, it makes me wanna scream. We do not have missionary goals AT ALL. We are simply a band, a group of five people who write and perform music. Anyway, moving on....this young man was curious. In most cases, I don't mind this kind of discussion, at all, in fact, in most cases, I encourage. Although lately, it's become very taxing and exhausting. It all started with the Davinci Code. Ever since that movie, there has been an abundance of TV programs on the History Channel, or the Discovery Channel, etc. about the "truth of life the of Jesus", or whether or not there is a "blood line", or whether or not Jesus and Mary were romantically involved, blah blah blah. So as this conversation went on, I tried my best to make it clear that the over all vibe reguarding spirituality in Mae was one of uncertainty. I will not speak in detail of the other members, but I can tell you that my opinion has really been to have no opinion at all. I have no guidelines for "christian living" or living at all. I've heard the phrase religious existentialism lately and I think that best describes me right now, a disconnect with Christ, a struggle to find His meaning. In a book I read, it described us as all being in the dark, blindly grabbing for "Gods cloak." I will never take any stance of authority on understanding the bible, or hearing God's word, or any thing like that. I am very opinionated, but, never sure of giving advice. I remember in church growing up, we were always pushed to "spread the Gospel", or "witness", and I have always been very uncomfortable doing anything of that nature. It's not that I'm ashamed of whatever it is I believe, it's simply because of the fact that I am so in the dark when it comes to understanding Christ, and I have no idea about what is going on in the person's life I would be talking to, that I would be somewhat of a hypocrite to do so. I can't promise anyone that God will change thier life, all I can do is answer questions to the best of my ability if someone else is interested. The Bible and the word "faith" mean nothing to someone who doesn't believe. How audacious is it, for me or anyone, to tell someone who I don't know that they will go to Hell if they don't do this or that. I remember I had a friend one time who was asking me I thought he was going to hell cause he wasn't a "christian"....and it hit me, who am I to tell anyone that thier belief will lead them to suffering or whatever Hell is. On top of that, no one should believe in something merely out of fear of punishment, or Hell.
Getting back to the conversation I was having, after hearing what I had to say, he said, "simply put-God is love and love is real." I am not going to disagree with him, but I didn't say anything in response.

24 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I find it strange that of all the things someone could ask you about, they asked about whether or not you're a christian band. Does it really make a difference if you are or aren't?

I think a lot of times people confuse having a religion with having faith. One can have faith without following any particular religion.

Having faith in something, in anything, is what's important, not what one has faith in.

11:34 PM

 
Blogger Joel said...

Anon,
Having faith in anything? That's about as beneficial as telling someone to capture wind in a jar.

C.S. Lewis once said,
“Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important.”

I believe this to be an absolute truth, and the essence of the faith that I possess. Lewis also states, better than I ever could, why my faith exists:

"I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else."

I appreciate that you guys, especially you Zack question life. I hope and pray that your questioning leads you unquestionably so back to Himself who gave you the ability to reason, discern and decide.

9:12 AM

 
Blogger Zach said...

joel, i TRULY appreciate you're concern and you're involvement in the post, but your first statement in response to what "anonymous" said...that is kind of what I have problems with, I don't know benefit that served. It smells of that arrogance that I detest in Christianity. As a Christian you have faith in something that is not proven, and it will not be proven by you, or CS Lewis, or Josh McDowell or anyone. I'm not saying this to pick you out or anything, like I said, I know nothing of your life, or anyones, but nor do you know anything of the life of anonymous. One of the aspects of christianity which I will always dislike and try my best to stay away from is the arrogance and certainty (concerning worldly and cultural issues and the spiritual fate of others) with which I've seen them speak so enthusiastically.

10:59 AM

 
Blogger Peter said...

Why is it that you always say things that seem to be an attempt at controversial? I know you don't try to be a Christian but to say things like "I will never take a stance on understanding the Bible" and "I cannot promise anyone that God will change their life" is irresponsible. Suppose a 12 year old kid goes out gets The Everglow from a Christan retailer, goes to the whatismae.com, which links to this. And what does he think? The guy in the band I like so much is not a Christian?

You're representing you, not Mae, yes I know. But but by you being in the position you are in, traveling around the country, playing to hundreds or thousands of kids a night, don't you think that you might want to share something more concrete and less transient than just songs?

Believe me I am a God doubter, I believe there is a God who loves me, who sent his son, Jesus, to die for all my wrong, and he rose again. Beyond that, I am clueless. But isn't that enough? From what I can tell, you are taking theology and philosophy too far. God's love is simple as it gets. Quit complaining about the church; my dad's a pastor I know, but I'm not one of them. Religion is man's way of trying to God. The church is fucked up? Okay, so what? Are you going to blog about it? (I'm guilty of that too) Or are you going to attempt to do something about your own self and your cynicism?

2:52 PM

 
Blogger Joel said...

Zach,

You're right. Poor form at best on my part. I too question everything in life. Maybe not in the same way you do; regardless, there is great value in seeking out truth. But if you continually search and never find any sort of truth in life, what have you spent your life doing? Maybe even more so, if you spend your life searching and refuse to find because the search is more intriguing, then what have you gained?

I hate religion. I despise the majority of Christianity that claims to love, respect, and hold to the example of Christ, and yet does nothing but gripe, complain, and ultimately look like everyone else (or worse).

I find myself all too often resembling that, maybe even in the comment above. I am dissatisfied with that part of me that lives the religion and fails at living out the life.

I don't know what your past has been, or anon's for that matter. I make no attempt at solving your questions. My only attempt is to share with you how I have come to see. It continues to be a path of questions, but I do believe there are answers.

I openly apologize that my words came across to you as spiteful and arrogant. That was not my intent.

5:00 PM

 
Blogger Zach said...

Peter, it's quite assuming of you to think of me as someone who merely blogs about things I see wrong, and I myself am not trying to reach any peace internally. Obviously you have not read blogs I've written before?

As far as the point you try to make about being a good example for a 12 year old fan--I'm not going to be dishonest, nor wil I be disrespectful..I will talk to the fan as honestly as possible, and if I let someone down for me expressing my thoughts, then so be it. I greatly appreciate any person who choses to listen to our music, but I'm not going to lie to them in order to keep them as a fan. Fans can think for themselves, and we encourage that.

And I know that in these blogs, I can be make very general claims regarding "the Church", but I am writing from what I've seen ,and what I've experienced. I am not telling people how it is in an objective sense, I am telling people MY experiences and MY thoughts. People have callings to do certain things, some people are called to be pastors, and some are called to be a missionary, etc, and those callings are personal and their motivations will never be insulted by me. I talk about the church that kicked my uncle out because of his long hair, the church that calls democrats and liberals "godless" and "wordly", the church that splits down partisan lines. I talk about the church that closes minds to the thought of God to non believers before ever opening them at all. I have my reasons to say what I say on these blogs. Here is a blog I wrote back in June...so please go back and read my old ones before you judge me on one.

"I believe I might be rather aimless in my direction this morning. I woke up too early and then started to read the bible, then I read the posts on my blog and your responses. I read the posts on Jacob's blog and Dave's blog, Rob's blog as well. I wrote in my journal, I wrote about my discontent and my lack of peace of mind, not with the "church" or whatever, but with myself. I felt like I am missing the point. As much as I gripe and complain, as cynical as I have become, I wonder if the problem lies within myself. I get overwhelmingly emotional when I feel God, when I see products of his Grace in others. I see it in passion, in spontaneity, I see it in places that I would never expect. Although, I think what's more important than seeing it in other things is that other people see God in you. I'm wondering where my deep disgust comes from, it has been really easy for me to believe in God in my life. I have been blessed with a fortunate upbringing, loving parents, and a life rather easy. Faith isn't hard when you have things to be thankful for, but when Faith in God really counts is when a life is hard, when a life is seemingly hopless. I feel like a fraud. What kind of heart does it take to have faith in a God, when the church neglects you, when "christians" reject you, when life forgets you. I have had it easy. I do not fabricate my cynicism, it is a result, but at what point does it become distracting? At what point does it become counter productive. Sometimes I still feel isolated in my reasoning, why am I so overwhelmed with it. When do I grow, and move away from it, move beyond it. Kierkegaard said that it is "one thing to stand on one leg and prove God's existence, it is another thing to get down on both knees and thank Him." At one point do I resign my ideals and focus on my own insides. I do not mean to hide God's truth, his love and his grace, I mean to expose it for what I think it is, but perhaps that puts me in the same camp as those I gripe about. What am I missing? How can there be so many conflicting views about one truth? Why is the bible at times, not comforting, but trying? Am I justified in my bitterness, or is it just a product of my youthful ignorance and me being misguided? I love reading all the responses you give me, I love reading my fellow band mates' thoughts, I learn so much from you, from them. It convicts me, it makes me look back in myself and I realize that I am a child, and that I do not understand God because of my own lack of understanding. The church is not keeping from Him, no one is, the only thing that keeps me from Him is my own stubborness and arrogance. I want to let everyone know that I am aware of that, I do not mean to come of as self righteous, or wise. I feel like a child with eyes so very wide in my search for the truth of God that I am distracted by everything that comes into my periphery. I've always thought of the church as being rather devoid of mirrors in which to see themselves, and I realize that I am in dire need of an honest mirror. I'm merely trying. I don't want routine, or ritual. I want the reality of it all.

"He who loves god has no need of tears nor of admiration. He forgets his suffering in love, forgets it so completely that he would not have the faintest idea of his pains if God himself did not remember them. He sees that which is hidden and knows the torment; He counts the tears and forgets nothing."--Kierkegaard"

6:59 PM

 
Anonymous Jaylyn said...

I was reading over some of your blogs and the comments on them. When you wrote of "the church" and your experiences with it, I was reminded of the day, the exact hour that I lost my faith in not religion, but the people who seem to be representing various religions within my life.

Almost a year ago my friend, barely 18 and starting college, died in an accident. At his funeral, I sat in a row with two of my friends.

To my left was my friend active in the Christian religion. She is devout in her practices, but never forces her beliefs on anyone else.

To my right was my friend who is an atheist. When I asked him what he exactly did believe once, he simply stated, "All I know is that too many bad things happen to too many good people for there to be a God."

I sat in between them, not really having a religion. A believer in a "God" of some sort, but having long ago been driven away from the church by the hypocricy within it. My faith lies more within myself, for I do not believe any sort of diety is going to help me with my earthly grievances. If I want something done, or I want to make a difference, I am the one who must do it.

During the service I sat holding my two friend's hands. The preacher spoke. He tried to answer the question, "Why him?" His answer being, "it was his time, God was calling him to heaven," an answer I was not satisfied with. He was followed by various family members who left not an eye in the church dry. Then, the preacher got up again. He said to the mass, "Who here wants to be saved? Raise your hand. It's what he (referring to my friend) would have wanted."
He repeated this several times, pausing between each time that he asked.

I instantly felt the grip on my hands tighten on both sides, and felt the anger these statements caused with my friends. I was outraged as well, almost to the point of disgust. How dare he speak for my friend and try to push his religion upon us at his funeral, a time of rememberance and mourning.

It was at that moment, that I completely lost all faith in the people of the church. I'm not saying all Christians are like this by any means. I am however saying that there will always be extremists who push religion too far and have strayed away from the basic message of their religion.

It should not be political, but it is.

It should not ostracize people who are different, but it does.

It should not be a competition to see which church can recruit the most people who want to be "saved", but it is.

It should be worship and education and personal growth, but it is not.

I make these statements as a generality of what I personally have experienced. I'm not trying to disrespect anyone or their beliefs/religion. This is just what I happen to have concluded from what has happened to me.

I found this in the works of Rumi:

"Stay bewildered in God, and only that. Those of you who are scattered, simplify your worrying lives. There is one righteousness: water the fruit trees, and don't water the thorns. Be generous to what nurtures the spirit and God's luminous reason-light. Don't honour what causes dysentery and knotted-up tumors.

Don't feed both sides of yourself equally. The spirit and the body carry different loads and require different attentions. Too often we put saddlebags on Jesus and let the donkey run loose in the pasture.

Don't make the body do what the spirit does best, and don't put a big load on the spirit that the body could carry easily."

8:44 PM

 
Blogger Peter said...

Actually Zach I read your blogs quite regularly because apart from being one of my favorite guitarists, you are quite the intellectual.

I see 'church' as an institution of idolatry in most forms. I see it also as exclusivity and a political platform at times. I do not believe the church as a whole is at fault, however, just most. At my church there are gays, homeless, punks, blacks, whites, Asians, goths, punks, and your yuppie white suburbanites. We preach love, nothing more, nothing less. But, we do not preach, 'God loves you no matter what.' If conviction is required than it is given. Its the only church that I've been to where I can have a smoke before walking in and won't get any death stares from members.

Let me make this clear: I am about as far from a "Christian" as you can get. I believe in abortion under certain circumstances, do not condemn homosexual marriages, disagree with the war, think our economy is in shambles, think marijuana should be legalized, and I hate the majority of televangelists. I also smoke a pack a day, and cuss like a sailor. But does God care? In my opinion, no.

I think the "nature of God" and theology is just an excuse for people to stray from what God actually says in his word. God loves humankind. That's it. I've given up on trying to answer questions that might concern me and my faith and just loved God. All these arguments in the early church is why there is so much division among Christians today. Its why there are 25 different denominations. If the early Christians had just stuck to loving God, both internally and externally, our church wouldn't be where it is.

Okay, I'll get off my soapbox.

So if you're ever in Nashville on a Sunday morning, come to my church, on 3rd and Broadway, right downtown. Bethel at the Globe.

P.S. What's your setup for the tour?

9:20 PM

 
Blogger Cathryn said...

I don't know how relevant this is, but as I was reading everyone's responses, all I could think of was the lyrics to a hymn my congregation sings all the time. They sound corny and trite at first, but for me, I feel closest to God when I'm singing these words. I think the song states what I believe better than I ever could. The last verse is my favorite.

"I believe in Christ; he is my King!
With all my heart to him I'll sing;
I'll raise my voice in praise and joy,
In grand amens my tongue employ.
I believe in Christ; he is God's Son.
On earth to dwell his soul did come.
He healed the sick; the dead he raised.
Good works were his; his name be praised.

"I believe in Christ; oh, blessed name!
As Mary's Son he came to reign
'Mid mortal men, his earthly kin,
To save them from the woes of sin.
I believe in Christ, who marked the path,
Who did gain all his Father hath,
Who said to men, "Come, follow me,
That ye, my friends, with God may be."

"I believe in Christ--my Lord, my God!
My feet he plants on gospel sod.
I'll worship him with all my might;
He is the source of truth and light.
I believe in Christ; he ransoms me.
From Satan's grasp he sets me free,
And I shall live with joy and love
In his eternal courts above.

"I believe in Christ; he stands supreme!
From him I'll gain my fondest dream;
And while I strive through grief and pain,
His voice is heard: "Ye shall obtain."
I believe in Christ; so come what may,
With him I'll stand in that great day
When on this earth he comes again
To rule among the sons of men."

I love Christ's gospel--it's the source of the joy in my life and the only peace I have in this crazy world, and I mean to say that as honestly as I can, despite how artificial it sounds. I think it's the opposite of true Christian belief to attempt to force one's views on anyone. I just get so excited to talk about what I believe just because I know it's made me so happy. I wish I could find a better way to share that happiness with other people.

I don't know. What brings you the most happiness?

10:21 PM

 
Blogger Zach said...

Peter, you seem to be much like myself, I guess I don't get why you got so angry. I know, like I said, that I can be quite general in my opinions, but it is never intended that way. (and i realize that sometimes intentions don't always matter most). I do not believe the post you responded to was even one of my more "bitter" posts. But I do believe, TRULY believe in God, and I know that my lack of understanding comes from my own mind, my own arrogance. Although, I do feel the representation of Christianity in America is one that represents a specific agenda, not Christ. I post about it so often because it is the one thing that bothers me to the core. I go through each day thinking about this kind of thing, being quite introspective and I have a lot of work to do before I become completely at peace with Christ and my roll as a human, and what God truly cares about, and wants for me. I wil not present some false gung ho clarity if I am not comfortable doing so. I see many problems with out things work, and I also recognize many problems with myself. I work on those each day.

10:43 PM

 
Blogger Zach said...

and oh yeah, for this tour i have as follows:
orange ad30tc
gibson les paul, fender deluxe reissue
pedals: holy grail, small stone chorus, line 6 delay modeler, boss super-shifter, seymour duncan pick up booster, volume pedal jr.

and! jaylyn, I completely agree with you. there is nothing more infuriating than when a speaker uses an event, whether it be marriage, or a funeral, to turn it into a church sermon.

10:47 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

First of all, I'm so sorry that your experience with the church has not been one of unconditional love. It breaks my heart to hear stories of people hurt by the church because I know that pain and frustration.

I completely understand your current stance with your faith and I feel that you have every right to question. If God didn't want us to be skeptical and figure things out for ourselves, then He wouldn't have created us with that ability. I do hope, however, that you see the immense good that is being done through your frustrations and questions and cynicsm. You are forcing others (including myself) to deeply look at their beliefs and question whether their faith is their own with God or that of society/their parents/their church. I don't have any quotes to sum up my thoughts on your thoughts, mostly because I don't feel it's my right to make judgments on your thoughts. I just hope that you are able to find some peace with your inquiries, even if that doesn't necessarily mean answers.

11:29 PM

 
Blogger Melanie said...

I tend to agree with what Joel said. The funny thing about truth is if it were to be absolute, to express it would come across as arrogant. If it is a lie, then it is indeed arrogannce. If it is the truth, then it is not.

Someone once brought up the idea that for God to desire our worship was rather arrogant, but the truth is that it is only arrogant if He is unworthy of it. I have come to my personal conclusion that He is worthy.

So, when I read that having faith in something is important, not what one has faith in, it sounds good, but there is no substance to it, imo. I happen to think it matters what my faith is in or my faith doesn't mean much. ON the other hand when anonymous says that people confuse having a religion with having faith, my own personal viewpoint is that anon hit the nail on the head.

I think the problem with the church is basically that it is made up of fallible and sinful human beings. I will never be totally without hypocrisy this side of heaven, though I think striving to be without it is a worthy goal. So far, I haven't met anyone that has achieved it, either (with perhaps the exception of Christ.)

I don't have all the answers, nor would I consider myself any authority on the Bible. However, I can read it, and there are things it clearly does say and things that it doesn't. The beauty of it is that it is both simple and complex. Anyone who says they can completely understand God probably hasn't read it all, but that isn't to say you can understand nothing about God, either. (I'm not assuming that you don't, btw, quite the contrary.)

As for going to Heaven or Hell, that is not my ultimate decision, nor can I judge the outcome of someone else's life, but if you do believe what the Bible says, then it clearly says that Christ is a part of the equation. Someone isn't sent to Hell, they chose their own path. I happen to agree that simply escaping Hell is a bad reason to accept Christ. Someone who's whole relationship is based on fear will have a relationship that is at best strained.

Somewhere there is this fine line between beating people over the head with the Gospel and simply being a "Christian." I don't think real sharing comes from anything other than real relationships, just as real faith comes from a relationship, not a system of religious practices, imo.

Do you know the Blood Sweat and Tears song, And When I Die? That was my stance for many years. I had to spend some time there before the rest would have any real meaning to me. We do have to allow people that and sometimes we don't.

Anyway, at some point you have to come to terms with what you believe, how, when and if to share it and your place in the whole scheme of things. My prayer for you (if you don't mind) would be that you would be able to settle things in your own heart. I have my own issues that I struggle with, so it is one I wouldn't mind receiving. It's late and I'm not saying this well. I hope that makes sense.

--Melanie

3:25 AM

 
Anonymous Alayna said...

So, I was driving home from the Shell Station where I bought some hotdog buns, and I saw a man who looked exactly like Dave driving by in a cement truck. The end.

1:58 PM

 
Blogger aznsong50 said...

I always find the question, "Are you a Christian band?" so odd. It's not like you're going to stand before God on Judgment Day, and God's going to scroll through the menu of your iPod and say, "Oh, I'm sorry, My child, but you listened to Audioslave instead of Audio Adrenaline. I'm afraid Heaven can't accept you." Your playlist does not determine your faith (or the status of your immortal soul, for that matter); many more important things do.

I am sorry that your experience with Christian establishments have not been pleasant. I am a member of an organized church myself, and I see examples of the hypocrisy you speak of in my own congregation, my own family, sometimes even myself. However, please don't be disillusioned with established Christianity because of the poor examples of a few. Yes, it seems that the bad examples are so much more abundant than the good ones, but we're not all so judgmental, so hypocritical, so arrogant, so unwilling to accept.

The main thing that I learned about established religion is not to judge it based on the people representing it, because we are all human, but rather on the principles upon which it stands. That is why I have chosen to remain in my church: Because I feel that its principles for life, teachings about God, and moral codes are the best way to help me find my way to God, though its members may sometimes fall from grace. Here's to both of us finding what we're searching for...

9:59 PM

 
Blogger Joel said...

Zach,
In light of your original post and thoughts, I read this on someone else's blog today and thought it was worth passing along for thought:

"There is no such thing as "Christian" music; there are only Christian lyrics. It is the words that make a song sacred, not the tune. There are no spiritual tunes. If I played a song for you without the words, you'd have no way of knowing if it were a "Christian" song." - Rick Warren (Purpose Driven Life)

6:03 AM

 
Blogger Zach said...

and joel i would have to reply to you that if the words make a song sacred, i suppose the words that make a song sacred are words that are used in a context of the Christian faith. But words of songs that to me are spiritual, may not be so to Rick Warren or to you, which stretches the influence of God even more. Can a Sigur Ros song be sacred? To me it totally is. Can Elliott Smith or Iron and Wine make a sacred song? It's all in the ears of the listener. Of course, there are songs that are written with intent to have a specifically Christian message, but that should not exclude songs that are written from other standpoints which affect people in certain ways.

6:35 PM

 
Blogger Joel said...

Zach,
As soon as I posted that I realized that I didn't clarify my thought. It was merely food for thought, rather than what I think. I found it interesting to have read that perspective after this discussion. I couldn't agree with you more.

Sigur Ros is a perfect example of music that inspires me, even without words or intelligible lyrics. There is something spiritually resounding in "Untitled 3" on the "( )" album. That music is moving beyond words, and honestly, words would take away from it.

RW might mean as you've said that some lyrics do make a song inherently religious or "Christian" in nature. Other songs don't need lyrics to be spiritually moving, and dare I say "worshipful".

6:12 AM

 
Anonymous katie / despite.these.rains said...

it's always fascinating to me the amount of passion that the "christian band" question stirs up in people.

i remember being so impressed the first time i read aaron marsh's explanation for why copeland would never play in a church. it was so different from the kinds of things i had heard before, and so in line with my frustrations about christianity as "industry", especially in this country.

i won't get into the theological debate on this post, because i've had this circular conversation too many times before (although i'm sure not as many times as you!). but i wanted to say that as another believer struggling through christianity, i applaud you and mae for making great music AND distancing yourselves from the christian music industry. i doubt you guys will ever get away from this sometimes frustrating conversation. but hopefully some good can come out of it too. peace.

1:03 AM

 
Blogger jon schneck said...

i just blog about comics and tom from myspace... you guys are deep in this section of cyber space. i love you zach. keep on keepin on. see you in canada tomorrow.

js

2:26 AM

 
Anonymous Liz said...

Ah, nothing like a religious post to get the comments flowing.
Having grown up in Utah in a non-lds (mormon) household, I have been part of very many religious debates, fights, talks, you name it. In the end I have come to the decision that it's not about WHAT you believe, it's about how well you live up to those beliefs and keeping hypocrasy at bay. Like you, I also don't believe in "spreading the gospel" or, as I like to call it, selling your religion. I also think it's ridiculous the role that religion has taken for some people. They make it the be all and end all, not just one part of an individual.
I'm glad you spoke your mind and you weren't afraid to talk about your beliefs.
That said, I can't wait to see you in good ole SLC tonight. I hope you play "The Ocean" :)

8:30 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the question kinda sucks.
it doesn't really matter in that situation.
but i like the post along with many others though, because when i read it i tend to agree with a lot of things that are said.
it's a bit odd to think alike to someone i've never even met.

7:28 PM

 
Blogger lkerbo said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

12:58 PM

 
Blogger lkerbo said...

We had a debate in my astrophysics class last semester about what religion is and whether or not math could be a religion. We came to find that, by definition, all things could constitute a religion if someone chooses to worship and have faith in it. No where is it said that a religion must have more than one follower to be valid. No where is it stated that it must be centuries or millennia old to qualify. We could have as many religions as people in this world if not more. Granted people would have to be worshipping lamps and clothes hangers, but to each his own. But I'd think people would be more likely to argue for music and math and things of that nature.

I believe religion is about faith, faith is about love/trust/etc, love/trust/etc are based on feelings. I also believe you can have all those things from faith down to feelings without having religion. Though I wouldn't say I'm well-versed and well-understanding of the Bible, I personally only see Biblical things as religion. In my mind, if God created all, then if someone wants to worship something else, they should first worship Him for the gift of whatever this other thing may be. For me music is one step down. Faith without religion. Saying I have faith in music doesn't quite fit with the definition, but I love music and trust it to help me and etc. Furthermore, great lyrics are little without an equally great tune and vice versa, so it all comes down to the overall feelings raised; not the words, not the melody, not who wrote them, not who sings them and whether or not they are Christian.

That kind of bird-walked and never really got back to the main point. Anyway, I guess I'm done.

Nice topic.

1:01 PM

 

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